Mark Stiles: my guest is a leader who puts client advocacy at the core of his firm's approach. Through his experience as a C P A, an entrepreneur and a devoted family man, he has seen firsthand how wealth impacts people. He's previously been recognized as one of Worth Magazine's, top 100 Wealth Advisors and one of Boston magazine's, five Star Wealth Managers.
He has been an EO member for 20 years, and his company is a strategic alliance partner for us here at EO Boston, c e o, and co-founder at Lexington Wealth Management. Please welcome Michael Tucci.
Michael Tucci: Well, thank you very much for having me and happy unofficial beginning of summer.
Mark Stiles: I love that. I love that. So, Mike, tell us why you started Lexington Wealth Management. So,
Michael Tucci: in a previous life I was a C P A, um, I worked for one of the. Then Big Eight, now big four accounting firms.
Left. Started an accounting firm with a colleague, grew that to a pretty 20 so person firm. And we had built, I think, number two market share in auditing and consulting to, um, public colleges and community colleges in Massachusetts. Well, at the time, the colleges were beginning to raise money to build their endowments, and we were consulting and doing auditing, and I was asked to help them with the investing aspects.
So, Of building how to, how to invest the money within those endowments. And my comment, this was in the late nineties, was why, why don't you go to one of the big wirehouses or to, you know, one of the big New York firms, which remain nameless? And they said, well, we'd rather have you come in cuz at least we trust you, right?
Mm-hmm. So at that moment, me, an opening was there for independent financial, fiduciary advice. So I bumped into my now partner, Christine Karro, who was starting a registered investment advisory firm, but one of my nonprofits over in Malvin, mass interviewed her and a colleague. They didn't get the job, but we became fast friends and then over a few drinks One night she convinced me to, um, join her and so to create a new advisory firm called Lexington Wealth Management.
So I did, I kept my day job for a while, my accounting firm. And then after about 18 months, she gave me an ultimatum. She said, either do this full time or I need to go get a job. So I sold my accounting firm, my part of my accounting firm, and started Lexington Wealth Management with her back in the 2000 2001 timeframe.
I love that. Short question. Long answer. Sorry. But
Mark Stiles: it, it's the perfect answer to that question. So, so, so you're doing, you've done I love that. Tell me about the sale of the accounting firm. How did that go?
Michael Tucci: It went pretty well. So we, we had, uh, I had a partner, it was called, the firm was called Ucci and Roseli.
Okay. And, um, my partner Roseli was the quintessential account. Right. I loved it. Phenomenal at it. He always reminded me of, um, Joe pe, my cousin Vinny, he could walk into a room, you know, be a rough Boston guy and figure out the problem in a matter of seconds. So we did a lot of cities and towns and state community colleges and I was in charge of the community colleges.
He had the cities and towns, so I was loving this. He was loving what he was doing. So we sold off my part of the firm, the colleges, to a a hundred person firm on the South Shore at the time. Sold it off and kind of sold me with it for a consultant for three years. But I consulted on that for three years.
I was getting Lexington Wealth Management going with my partner, Christine Poka. I love
Mark Stiles: it. I love it. So, okay, so tell me about Lexington Wealth Management. What is the typical client and how do you typically help them? So, I'm gonna backtrack
Michael Tucci: for one second. Yeah, let's do it. I feel like, I feel like a politician here.
So when we started the firm in 2001, yes. We had maybe two handfuls of clients, maybe three, four, and 9/11 happens. Mm-hmm. Right? And we were like, shit, what do we do? And so we started looking up data or what happened in previous, what happened in World War II with Pearl Harbor.
We started looking at other stuff and one of our clients was a psychologist, and we started talking to her. She said, Mike, put the data down for a minute. She goes, these are people. They're real people. Go out to their homes, sit in their living rooms and just talk to 'em. They're going through stages of grief right now.
Our country was just attacked. We're feeling insecure. Yeah. The money's there. It's in the background, but just have conversations. They're real people. Right. So we did it. We started going forward with it and we, you, I was a CPA with MBA in finance. Mm-hmm. You know, um, and understood taxes and tax efficiency and building good portfolios and planning and all that stuff.
But that moment we realized the emotional aspect of money and wealth. Was a key component. And actually in Worth Magazine the last time they did it without paying to be in it, I was recognized as one of the top a hundred planners in the country. And it wasn't for all the fancy stuff, it was for the emotional side of money and wealth that we paid a little bit more attention to.
Right. And that led into working with clients and it bled into working with a lot of entrepreneurs who, as we know are highly emotional people, right. And we all think we're smarter than the next person. Or maybe we pretend we are, or hope we are, but it played into it. So typical clients run the gamut, right?
They can be retirees, um, they can be ent, you know, a lot of 'em are entrepreneurs, a lot of 'em are entrepreneurs. Just pre and post liquidity event. Uh, women in Wealth, we have a big segment. We do, we do Empower Women series here. Uh, we work with a lot of women in wealth. And it runs the gamut. We don't have a ton of corporate executives.
I'm just throwing that out as a, as a group. But at this point, we're advising on about 850 clients and about 2.2 billion of clients assets. And we're a fee only, uh, fiduciary firm. Right. And that's how we set it up. But we pay a lot of attention to this day to really try to understand our client and our thought process is if we can really understand our client, And that means they'll probably tell us more things.
The more things they tell us, the better we can plan versus just handing someone a questionnaire, have them fill out some box and give 'em some kind of can and plan. So, and it ties into being an entrepreneur, cuz as you know, the fun of life is just the mixing up of everything. Right? Good, bad, or indifferent is what makes life fun and spicy.
Right? But I, I think it makes us better planets.
Mark Stiles: That's amazing and it, and it's amazing that you can, you can trace it back to nine 11 and the feeling and the psychology around the people, you know, as opposed to the numbers. Cuz it's really easy to say assets under management, right? So yeah, what does that actually mean?
Yeah, what does that mean? But the people. Tell me about the entrepreneurs. So tell me, are there certain characteristics that you see? And I definitely want to get into the pre and post, uh, liquidity events too. Sure.
Michael Tucci: So I'd say this, I've been, I've been an EO group for 20 years. Mm-hmm. I'm also in a Vistage group and I was sitting awarded with a group of people I've been with for a number of years.
And we cover all kinds of issues, as you know, in these groups. But at one point we went around the room and everyone kind of talked about what their financial plan was and what they were doing, investing and insurance and, and my observation was, I was underwhelmed with the responses of my members going back, uh, eight years.
Uh, great entrepreneurs, they know the business KPIs, the marketing plan, what's their plan B if the economy goes sideways, and so on and so forth, yet how little planning there was. Their investment process, for the most part was highly dysfunctional. You know, a lot of cash, three or four stocks, you know, it was just very, or they just hadn't paid attention to it at all, right?
It was just sitting on the side. No real holistic plan, um, drawn. Um, the spouses in many cases hadn't been bought, brought into the financial planning or what they had as a plan. So a lot of ambiguity amongst the spouse. Um, and I was really surprised about that cuz from my thinking and, and what I did early on with my spouses.
I, I, I sold the vision, Hey, we don't have much, here's what we have here personally, but here's what the business is. Right? And I tend to find out entrepreneurs either totally overvalue the business. Really undervalued the business, right? So I was just really concerned when we weren't around the room and I said, there's a, there's an opening here to really help entrepreneurs
Mark Stiles: along the way.
I love that. And, and everyone is different, right? I mean, you are an entrepreneur and you chose to take a path of full transparency where we are more of an accountant role, uh, with your spouse. But every entrepreneur is a little bit. Different, so. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about the entrepreneur that is, you know, all chips in pushing, pushing, pushing, company is everything, and they're getting close to a liquidity event.
They're not there, but they're preparing for it. How can you, how can you assist there?
Michael Tucci: So full disclosure, Lexington Wealth, you know, for 20 years we're independent and we grew the firm and we got to about a billion dollars. We went to market, hired a banker. I spoke with 21 different firms, serious bidders, and carved out a good six month of of my life.
And once each of the models understood it, understood the financials, pre-sale, post-sale, the whole thing, and we had had a evaluation done maybe a couple years earlier. Me, it was a really valuable piece in the process. So the firm I chose to. I guess, uh, hitch my Horse to is a firm that could help provide us with more resources to help entrepreneurs.
So one of the things we can do is we, we can go out now and not just look at what you have money put away or do a financial plan, but we can kind of do a Zillow form of evaluation for you, right? And come in, look at your business and get you within and Zillow's plus or minus seven or 8%, um, when you read the disclosures behind it, but get you within 10% of probably where the value of the business is.
Then for entrepreneurs that are more serious, that we can help bring it to bar market, bring it to some two or three investment banks, and help with that part of the process. But the biggest piece, I think, is to have a true feel for what the value of your business is, right? And then look at that in conjunction with what's going on in the rest of your life, and then try to figure out how to play it from there.
Um, quick example. We used to have a partner in DC that worked with a lot of professional athletes. He was the expert and I certainly was not. But what he'd get is he'd get players early in their careers that could be cut in a heartbeat and he would wanna take their investment portfolio and make it very safe.
A lot of fixed income, a lot of very conservative investment vehicles. I said, why? He said, because a good chunk of their life is this upside that can happen. But if they get injured in the first season or two, they're, they're down and out. So conversely, he had some folks that had finished their careers and were broadcasters.
I think you'd know the names if I mentioned 'em to you. Their portfolios tend to be much more impressive cuz now their life was much more stable. They had this income, you know, they're not gonna get injured as a, as a broadcaster, right. So we try to understand that relationship with the entrepreneur and with their businesses, right?
Some businesses react more, they're more like bonds, and some are like, you know, PE firms that can go up and go down in a hurry, right? But I think just having that baseline indication can be a useful tool. And I still go back to at some point selling it to one spouse, showing that you're being thoughtful about all of this.
I think in Ghana, more support for the entrepreneur so that that spouse, husband or wife, That's what the entrepreneur is really trying to accomplish, and at least they see it there and they know what the plan B is in case plan
Mark Stiles: A doesn't work well. Transparency's always a good, uh, rule of thumb, I guess would be the, the easiest way of saying that.
Transparency. And then you have a teammate, right? Then you don't have someone who's questioning what's going on and you know, why do we have to tighten the belt, you know, this month because sales are down. Like, what is that even? Even mean, but tell me more about the valuation. So you talk about it with the Zillow plus or minus 10%.
How do they come to the valuation? What, what is needed by the, uh, owner of the business?
Michael Tucci: Sure. So a couple things. I I, you know, I've gone through it myself. Yeah. And Lexington's probably done five acquisitions in, uh, 20 years, three of which were done the last three or four years. Cool. So I've lived it with going through it myself.
And, and then done acquisitions myself and then consulted to a number of companies. Right? So I think there's a number of things. I, I usually try to talk to friends and colleagues when they're look thinking about selling the business. Everything from just, you know, I put my accountant hat on, making sure your financials are clean.
Yeah. Making sure you're properly documenting things along the way. Um, looking for a certain growth pattern along the way. You know, one or two bad quarters can really destroy evaluation. And so on. Just common sense things, you know, making sure your books are really clean, you know, personal expenses are personal business expenses are business expenses and the like, right?
Documenting everything. And just if you don't have a good accounting team, get a good accounting team and so on. So then when we come in, um, the f the, our strategic partner now is, uh, partnered with a firm that has a lot of data, data analytics. So I have got two of my people on, uh, that work for me, one of which heads it up.
Who's the C P A by background? Worked for one of the big national firms. Um, she goes out and she collects data, a bunch of data, and it's probably a, it's probably a 15 hour project. It's not a Okay. Heavy lifting. You know, you know, it's like you're gonna market and selling, but it's a 15 hour project. Um, we know what industry you're in.
We look at the codes. We look at two or three years worth of growth rates, and it gives, gives the entrepreneur a ballpark feel for what the value is. Right? Some, so some firms we've worked with and wanted to do that, and we've done that. So far it's been pro bono. We, we haven't had 50 of 'em come in at once, so we haven't had the charge, but I always look at it as a marketing tool and we hope these people will become clients in the future.
Right. So that's step one. Step two, sometimes people need a more official valuation. They're going through a divorce or something like that, and we serve as a liaison to bring a outside firm. To, to, to market. And it's an accounting firm that does a more stringent valuation. And it could be for, you know, um, share repurchases, could be for insurance, could be for divorce.
And then a lot of times it's, it's skip the whole thing. We're really serious. We're thinking about this. Can you help us out? And we've, we're partnering with a firm that can really help. We've got, I think about 10 or 15 different investment banks around the country serving different, different sectors that we usually try to bring in two or three.
And to have a broad conversation. Right? And a lot of times you'll talk to bank one and it's just not the right fit for them. They, they'll look at the industry or look at the growth rate. It's not right for them, but it's an easy way to take a quick look and get to one or two that you may choose to go to market with.
If that happens, we then step back, let the banker work with the entrepreneur, our parent company gets, gets paid part of the investment banker's fee. If, if it works out, we would receive part of it, but we don't accept it. We, if, if it happens in our piece of the fee, we'll talk to the entrepreneur and say, Hey, what charity do you like?
And we'll donate that to a charity. We don't wanna, you know, it's, we're, we're fee only, so we, we don't wanna, um, have the perceived conflict of interest. Right. And we've done that with a couple of firms, um, so far. But for the most part, what we've done is the basic valuation. I think it's just a good way to put your thumb up.
And say, okay, roughly where is my business? What's it approximately worth now? So you're not just pulling the number out of the year. I, I find in my business, you know, we're an advisory firm advising on 2 billion. If we went to market and another firm down the street was advising on a hundred million, if we got a certain multiple, a hundred million firm would think they get the same multiple.
That's just not, it's not true. There's not as much scale. And conversely, if there's a 50 billion firm, we're not gonna get the same multiple as them. Right. Um, you've gotta look it that way. So I just view it as a, it's a tool on our toolbox that we can use to help entrepreneurs. It's
Mark Stiles: an amazing tool because I'm certain that most entrepreneurs are sitting there wondering, what is my business worth and what is the multiple, and what are the factors of this in my industry?
So, you know, cheers to you all for doing that. So let's talk about the difference between. You know, the lift for getting this Zillow type business valuation versus going that next step and, and, and going to market.
Michael Tucci: Yeah, so I, I think it's, it's two separate things. There's nothing like the free market to tell you what the value of your firm is, right?
So, but you, it is a, I'll say this, it's commitment. Right. You know, David Tiz, I think famously said, once you start talking about retirement, you're already retired. Yeah. Once you start, really, you go that beyond that first step, and you start going that next step and looking at bankers and engaging a banker, it can become all consuming.
And it, in many cases hurts your business. Mm. And by the way, if it hurts your numbers while you're going through this day, because everyone likes to hear how pretty they're Right, right. Or all handsome, they're right. We all wanna be told that. Right. And the bankers will do that and they'll, you'll go to market if you go to market.
Right. And it's a whole process that, that they'll try to build their book and do this whole thing and go to market takes time. And while you go to market, if you take your eye off the ball, if you numbers slip right, it's hurting your evaluation. So I just caution people, you know, the basic valuation's easy.
It doesn't take a ton of time. And if you're really ready to go to market, yes, do it, but know that it's, it's a process. If you run it the appropriate way, in my view, it's gonna take a lot of time and energy, right? And you better be really serious about it if and when you go there,
Mark Stiles: and then you're available once they're post liquid.
So there's analysis on. On where to put the money, but also before you get the money, how to receive the money. Right,
Michael Tucci: right. Even, even before that we're available, because a lot of times just knowing what is, what is your number? Yes. So it's an entrepreneur and they're selling and they're 45 years old and they've got, you know, uh, three, seven year, uh, seven year old, an eight year old, a 12 year old, and they're planning him on reinventing himself and doing the next act.
Well, sometimes the next act happens sometimes. One hit wonders, right? So the worry is what if I'm a one hit wonder? Do I have enough? Mm. Now if the person's 64 different story, okay, the kids are through college X, Y, and Z, okay, what's my number will run, will work. But a 45 year old, what's my number? Maybe a different story because if you look at it, you've got 45 years of life expectancy ahead of you, right?
With a lot of costs coming down the road. So we can help. Refine that number and run it under different scenarios. You know, do I have another hit? Do I take a job someplace and, and make a couple hundred thousand a year? What is it? Right? Uh, and that also dovetails with, we also have an estate planning service where we have an estate planning attorney that is available to us that we can use to review you documents, but also we can have that conversation with you.
So many, in many cases, you know, if you're pre-sale, There's a lot of estate planning, there's some tools in the toolbox you can use to potentially, before the company gets valued to, to gift shares out of the business and so on and so forth. Pre evaluate, pre pre going to market. Right. So, and I
Mark Stiles: assume that's kind of a team huddle, right?
That's a, a estate planning attorney, c p a, you all getting together and saying, this is, this is the strategy. Let's, let's execute it this way.
Michael Tucci: So it's, it is definitely a firm like us on the planning. Yeah. We also have access to call it an in-house, our parent company has a estate planning team. Yeah. That, that can be included in that consulting fee.
So basically help draft out and give you some thoughts before you go out and hire an estate planning attorney. And they turn the clock on. Yeah. And that rate can be 5, 6, 7, 1200 bucks an hour. Right. So help with some of that pre-planning. I'm doing this right now with an entrepreneur. Um, worth. Probably 50 to 70 million right now where we're doing some of this pre-planning before we go to the estate planning attorney,
Mark Stiles: which makes a lot of sense.
Right? It does. The pre-read exactly.
Michael Tucci: Right. So
Mark Stiles: you're busy, busy individual. What, uh, what do you, what do you do for fun? Do you find time for fun?
Michael Tucci: I find too much time for fun. I always have fun. Good for you, Monroe. A work how I play hard. So, uh, three children who have now becoming younger adult children, um, a sophomore in college, one that graduated last week is looking for a job.
If anyone knows of something is supply chain management, let me know. He's still
Mark Stiles: looking. I love that. Call it out. Supply chain management comes from a good family, man.
Michael Tucci: Call it out. And then, um, I have, uh, a son who's working for a couple years. He's in sales. Um, tight family. I've along the way. I think I coached 35 teams in my town over a 10 year period.
Had a blast with that. When that slowed down, we, um, bought a house up in the coast of Maine. We built a dock trying to, you know, we've got a couple boats we like to buzz around doing that, trying to learn how to play the damn game of golf. Very frustrating. Little tennis, little pickleball. Um, some travel, you know, I
Mark Stiles: do, I do.
I shared the, uh, the journey of coaching with you. That was, um, a lot of rewarding days and, and nights doing that for
Michael Tucci: sure. Oh, a lot, lot of fun. It's funny, a lot of my adult friends to date outside of work and professionally, People that I coached with along the way. Right. Makes sense. There's more funny stories that come up out of that than anything else, which is not for
Mark Stiles: this podcast.
No, but isn't it great to see those those players develop into human beings and have their successes and, and, and be, be proud to have been a minuscule, but a part of that. I
Michael Tucci: walk into, I'm in Winchester and I walk into Dunkin Donuts last fall, and I'm six five, about 2 35 pounds. Some kid comes up to me, he's probably.
Six three, full B, probably two 80 slaps me around the back. Hey coach, how's it going? And I was like, I've got no idea who you are. Last time I saw you, you were a peach face little boy,
Mark Stiles: you know? Yes. But is there a better feeling than that? You know, it was, it was a great, it was a great feeling. I love, I love be you can referred to as coach.
It means, uh, it means you, you made an impact. Hopefully. Cheers. Hopefully Cheers. So, but Maine, what's going on in Maine? Tell me about Maine. That's an interesting place. Are you starting to, uh, to dial it back and enjoy the, the good fruits of your labors?
Michael Tucci: So the plan is to dial it back? Yeah. Yeah. I find myself working more than ever.
So post, um, transaction for us. Um, Christine and I kept a piece of our company's profits, but we were a billion dollars and we sold three years ago. Now we're 2.3 billion, right. We were 14, 15 people. Now we're 28 people. So, you know, I, the firm we joined forces with is very entrepreneurial and they're allowing me to continue to be an entrepreneur, right?
So as long as I can continue to be an entrepreneur, I'm staying and I'm loving it. Right? And we're, we're growing the firm. We're doing some sub acquisitions ourself. We've got nice organic growth. My team around me is kind of like, I feel like the teams I've coached in town, like a lot of, we brought a bunch of people on as interns.
We're now senior managers, you know, it was 10, 12 years ago. So tight team, very few people ever leave that join us and we pay a lot of attention to culture and fit and all of that along the way. And then we work hard to keep it like, I've been married for 31 years, right? And it's a great marriage, but if, if you don't work at it and try to mix it up and keep it interesting.
You know, it, it can be a challenge, right? So when things, when you keep it interesting, it's fun for
Mark Stiles: everyone. That's amazing. And I love the fact that, you know, you might take the coach off the baseball or football field, but uh, you can't take the coach out of the coach. I love that.
Michael Tucci: I said, one, my team members, we talked about something.
I said the same thing to a basketball team, my coach, I said, if there's a loose ball on the ground, I didn't wanna see nothing but bodies diving far. Right? Yeah. And so business wise, I, I feel the exact same way today as I did coaching. And by the way, that includes me as well, right? Is there something there I don't wanna hear.
It's a night or it's a weekend, or I'm tired, right? Hey, you know, someone calls you same day, you're getting back to people. Even if you don't have an answer, get back to 'em and, and say, I don't have an answer, but I'll be back to you tomorrow. Right.
Mark Stiles: Yeah, I love it. I love it. Little secret. You are, um, the reason I joined eo, uh, you don't know this, but I was, uh, uh, a guest, um, with one of my now forum mates, Dave Will, at an event that you hosted, Lexington Wealth Management hosted it up at, uh, it was, is it called Brooklyn Rocks or Brock?
Brock Brookline Rocks. And you had the
Michael Tucci: Brooklyn, Brooklyn Boulders. I think we had Alex Connell Yes. Was at that day. And they, his free solo just won an Academy of Wa. Um, we signed them before, like two days before they won an Academy Award for it. And this price, like Quintuples,
Mark Stiles: isn't it amazing? I mean, timing is, is special sometimes, isn't it?
Oh, rock, rock.
Michael Tucci: That was, that was, you know, we went to do that event and I had a marketing at the time, came in with the idea of the event. And I said, you know, there's, there's no way we're gonna get any kind of return on investment on this thing, right. Because we're gonna have him in, he did a luncheon session with mm-hmm.
A bunch of CEOs then did some rock climbing demonstrations. I said, but it's just gonna be a fun event. Sometimes you just gotta have fun, right? Yes. And so it, it, it paid for itself, I'm sure. But it was one of the most fun things we've done here at Lexington and we, you know, we try to do a ton of different kinds of events and, you know, I always justify some fun event and somehow there'll be some great R o I.
And sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. But I think it just keeps the, the spirit and the energy
Mark Stiles: going, you know? Well, I appreciated it. I mean, to the point where I said like, you know, sign me up. This was an amazing event. There was a full on. Wow. And I wanna let you know from the entire chapter how appreciative we are for you and our SAPs.
I mean, without you all, we don't operate. And, and thank you from the chapter. You're welcome.
Michael Tucci: So I'm, I'm an sap. But I, I view it 75. 25? Yeah. Or 80 20. I'm 80% a member. Yeah. Alright. And I'm 20 in my head, 20% an sap. And my view of the world is if I can just help out some other entrepreneurs, like so many have helped me along the way.
Whether a client of mine, not a client of mine, I'll say it doesn't matter. My partner, Christine, we mad, I should say it doesn't matter, but it, you know, it's, it's just, it's, it's fun. It's good karma and. That's what we're all here
Mark Stiles: for, right? Yes, indeed. Amen. And thank you. We appreciate you so most. No,
Michael Tucci: I appreciate you having me on.
Mark Stiles: Yeah. Well, most important question of them all. Oh boy. Mike, somebody wants to, uh, connect with you. How do they best do that?
Michael Tucci: So it's, um, m tucci lexington wealth.com is my email, um, myself, 7 81. 7 9 9 8 1 2. And for me, this is personal, which is why I give up my personal self, right? The main line to the firm is 7 8 1 8 6 0 7 7 4 5.
Lena Cardone is my assistant. You remember the movie My cousin Vinny, right? Of course. Remember, um, his assistant, I forget her name in that. Um, Marissa Tome. Marissa Tome. Yeah. My Lena is some version of her. I can be on an island in Maine kayaking, and a client or prospect can want to get ahold of me, and I swear she'll come by in a speedboat.
She'll find me, get me a world phone and say, take this call right now, but I'm relaxing. You need to take the call. So Lena Cardone
Mark Stiles: will find me. I love that and I love it that you've put out your numbers and your email, and obviously he can be found on LinkedIn and lexington wealth.com. Thank you again, Michael.
I appreciate you very much. Oh, thank
Michael Tucci: you. I appreciate you taking the time with me today. It was a lot of fun.
Mark Stiles: So folks, this has been another exciting episode of Leadership in Action, your Boston Chapter of Entrepreneurs Organization podcast. If you enjoyed this, if you thought of somebody who needs to listen to this, share it with them.
Thank you all and be well.